This Won't Teach You Anything: A Pop Culture Podcast
This Won't Teach You Anything: A Pop Culture Podcast
A Tribute to Good Will Hunting: Unforgotten Insights and Reflections
Ever wondered what makes Good Will Hunting a timeless masterpiece? Curious about how the iconic roles of Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and Robin Williams have influenced the personal lives of our guests Jake Garringer and Joshua Ort? Join us as we revisit this classic film, sharing our personal connections and the lingering impact it has had on our lives. We dive in detail into the portrayal of real-life experiences, relationships, friendships, and mental health. Also, we rekindle why we regard it as one of the best Boston movies ever made.
In our intimate chat with Garringer and Ort, we dissect the unforgettable performance by Robin Williams, highlighting his character, Sean Maguire. We reflect on Sean’s vulnerability, which allowed him to break through the walls built by Will. This film has shaped our lives in ways we never imagined, and we share these revelations alongside a tribute to Robin Williams's performances in Dead Poets Society, Awakenings, and The Fisher King.
In the final segment, we celebrate the genius of the scriptwriting and the creative processes that shaped the film's narrative. We delve into Cole Hauser's casting, the role of independent cinema, and the significance of relationships and mental health in the film. We also announce our new YouTube channel, where we plan to share more movie reviews and other engaging content. Stay tuned, and join us on this cinematic journey!
Hello and welcome to this episode of this. Won't Teach you Anything. We will be discussing a favorite film amongst my two guests and myself, jake Geringer. Out of where you at tonight, jake.
Speaker 2:Aloha, mr Hand, I am out in Redondo Beach. What a jerk.
Speaker 3:Is that Redondo Beach Hawaii?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's we were having a little discussion here beforehand, off topic of the subject we're going to be talking about, about fast times at Ridgemont High and personal feelings about said film. Our other guest tonight is a good friend of mine. He's been on the show before Joshua Ort Josh.
Speaker 3:Hey, we're good friends now, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's elevated.
Speaker 3:Upgraded.
Speaker 1:As far as the crowd's know, then yeah, we're on the up and up.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yep, we are discussing tonight we're talking Good Will Hunting a film. I think that all of us, you know, kind of we've known each other for a long time, so it wasn't like we saw this movie and became friends over this movie. I think we saw it at different times and I think we each saw something as cliched as it sounds, something you know. We each saw something different in it. I think you know we saw what made most people love the film. But you know, jake, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was thinking about that when we brought up that we were going to watch it and discuss it, and I didn't see this for a long time, years after it had come out, because I had strong feelings for Matt Damon at the time, because you were in love with him.
Speaker 3:I don't find this shocking.
Speaker 2:No, I was not happy with him. As well as a character oh, from school ties, he was such a good actor and such a jerk in that movie that I didn't want to support and see this movie, and I know that this became a pretty personal movie for I think, all of us and you especially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know, or what's your connection?
Speaker 3:Well, you had asked me I don't know about six months ago, some time ago, about potentially doing this, but you gave me like a day's notice, so I wanted to review the film, which I've done now and I have notes. I'm glad you have your notes. Yes, but no, like you guys are saying, just looking back, early career for Matt Damon and Ben Affleck Just a movie that sticks out for all of us.
Speaker 1:When you mentioned Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. As we get into this, we go ahead and think about do you think, when they're writing this film I mean these guys have lifelong friends, you know, yeah, you know, it's really is semi-autobiographical. You know, wouldn't you say I mean a lot of the stuff you know because it's from their part where they grew up, and it's really that type of thing. Anybody that's an entertainment fan and who has friends that are entertainment fans, movie fans, you know, I think at one point or another goes ahead and decides or thinks about man, you know what we should make a movie, you know, and these guys did it. I mean, these guys did it. And not only did they do it, but they did it at the highest level. They walked away with Oscars. They're Oscar winners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and early on in the career. And I think when you say semi-autobiographical, it started with Matt Damon at Harvard and he wrote this in his playwright class and it wasn't fully fleshed out, but he came away with that and I think the professor had said something. He gave him an A on it and said that you know, I don't know where this story is going, but I would like to know. And I think that gave him some, some fire and some desire to be able to push forward with the story and wanting to flush these characters out and they were Chucky and Will who wasn't named Will at the time and Sean. So I think that that was the important thing was to try to bring those three characters out. And then I think they also wanted to write some parts, because they were struggling actors and trying to find some parts out there and writing themselves good parts for them to be able to be cast in other movies. That was their whole goal of this script.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no doubt I mean it shows through. Right, if you're going to go ahead and write a movie in the hopes of you know starring in it, why not go ahead and do something that's close to home?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they did exactly that, and they live and breathe and that's one of the best Boston films of all time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a film. You know, when I go ahead and I watch Good Will Hunting and when I went in, admittedly, you know, aside from the trailer, I didn't know much about it, you know it was a movie that my fiance and I at the time my wife now, but fiance at the time, you know we went in and watched. You know at the time that this came out God, it makes it really hits home how long ago that was Like it was like 25 years ago 45 years ago, man, yeah, it was that way, and it's crazy to think it was that long ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you saw it in the theater. Then I did, I did. Or did you see it in the theater?
Speaker 3:I'm. You know we're talking. I don't remember when I saw it, I just remember you because you named your daughter Skyler after but yeah, I can't put time or place as far as that goes, but I remember walking away from it, being very impressed with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know how great is it when you do see a film that resonates with you so much. I think they're the ones you know. If I go into a movie and I see, you know, I know what to expect from a Marvel movie, a big budget Marvel movie right, I know what to expect when I go in. I may not know the entire arc of the story and what's going to happen at the end, but I had high hopes for things like end game and infinity war. Right, I mean, there's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like outline, knowing what was going to be happening.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, you got the good guys, you got the bad guys. This is a film that I just it looks kind of interesting, you know, and maybe there's nothing else playing at the time. I don't remember exactly what it was.
Speaker 3:And now set of what Robin Williams, who were Affleck and Damon at the time. Exactly, yeah. So it's always nice to be pleasantly surprised by a movie that you're like. Ah, we'll go check this out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are. I think those are the best, the best surprises to go ahead and see a film like that and then it really sticks with you. As you mentioned, josh, the you know we, we saw that and we really liked the name Skyler and that was many drivers character in the film.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you when you came about the name in Skyler that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's how I knew it was. 25 years ago I had a personal thing for you. Yeah, that's how I knew it was 25 years ago was the fact that my daughter is 25.
Speaker 2:So so that's how that works out.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's how I was able to go ahead and measure that film was from the fact that, yeah it, we were playing with a few few names at the time, and when we saw the movie, we're just kind of like, you know, I love that name, and so that's where it stuck.
Speaker 2:And that was the name of the girl that Matt Damon was dating at Harvard when he wrote this.
Speaker 1:No kidding.
Speaker 2:Skyler, I did not know that semi autobiographical.
Speaker 1:That is great. We you know the film without going through, you know, and I guess you know how we we usually do when we talk, we just kind of jump around from different things, facts and things that that struck us in the movie, things we liked, maybe things that that we didn't like. So you know, we've talked about how how it came about, from from Affleck and Matt Damon and and Casey Affleck, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Morgan.
Speaker 3:I forgot he was in that till. I rewashed it last week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Again, pleasant surprise, you know it. It just was one of those films I don't even know I wanted to and I didn't look it up here in a minute. Does anybody have the budget on this? What it was budgeted? Ten million, Ten million.
Speaker 3:Oh, rain, man's got it there. Lock and key yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I would expect, if one of the three of us to have it, it would be that guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I knew I wasn't going to have it, you know, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's a bit of one of those. I guess you could call it a sleeper hit, wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:I mean the expectations couldn't have been anywhere. Yeah, but Robin Williams, I mean he was big.
Speaker 1:Right, but you know he he had done dead poet society by this time. So you know him doing a dramatic turn was not out of the out of the ordinary but, you know, still primarily known as a, as a comedic actor and a stand up. But is is there, is there any performance that the Robin Williams did that was any better than this?
Speaker 2:I would think either awakenings or deadboats society, either one of those. I mean De Niro was great and I think he was nominated for an Oscar in awakenings, but it was a chance for Robin Williams to really show like his wings in acting and the Fisher King as well, which I think he was nominated for but didn't get it. So he definitely showed that he could be serious when he needed to be. And especially deadboats society. I mean these movies had major effects with me and in the way that I was living my life based off of these things.
Speaker 2:So I would say him as Dean Keating and deadboats society would rival this, but this is one of those where he's a little bit older and so he's no longer. He's more of a father figure than anything, and Keating was more of a teacher figure. He never felt like a father figure. But this one was really in the way that he speaks and the warm and grace almost with his voice was able to bring him in and allow Will to be able to trust him. So I would go with this one.
Speaker 3:I think too, talking about being kind of semi-autobiographical, knowing now what we know about Robin Williams going through some of the scenes with Will, the painting sticks out to me as far as Robin Williams' character and Will kind of breaking him down during that scene and just how powerful that was and just admiring Robin Williams as an actor and how much of himself he probably brought to that that kind of darkness of the character in the movie.
Speaker 3:But how much of that was him personal and kind of bringing some of his demons, kind of expressing that on film for some of those scenes.
Speaker 1:That's a great point because you have a lot of films where you have a mentor to the main character and you see it throughout film you can look at. It doesn't matter the genre you can have an. Obi-wan Kenobi to a Luke Skywalker and a Mickey to Rocky.
Speaker 1:You have these characters that go ahead and have that relationship with the main character who help guide him, and kind of a moral compass, I guess, or in some way a father figure to the main character. Now, what Orch just said about the dynamic between Sean, who is played by Robin Williams, and Will is the fact that it wasn't all one sided Sean didn't have all the answers and Will got to him. So before he I mean just by Will having that defense mechanism to where he's just screw everybody, nobody's out there to help me and nobody's smart enough to help me if I wanted him to. It's kind of the attitude that I he had all these walls put up from everything that he'd been through growing up and he wasn't about to especially let the doctors of shrinks that were put before him before they got to Sean McGuire. They weren't. He wasn't gonna let any of these people in to help him and he did break Sean down. Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:He did because when he first we'll get into the middle of it, when he first we'll get into the move. I'm sorry, I'm gonna jump in.
Speaker 2:No, go ahead, let's do it With Robin, when the first thing that we see with Robin Williams is him talking about trust when he's teaching his class and he's like, why is it important for trust? And as we see, that that's the most important thing for the therapist or counselor to be able to have with the patient. And so Will is just using defense mechanism after defense mechanism to try to push everybody away because he doesn't wanna show that he's vulnerable or that anybody can do anything to him, physically or mentally. Mentally he can stave them all off because of his genius. Physically he can do that because of the buddies that he's surrounded them with and he can take on anybody. So he's really put up this strong fortress around him. But for somebody to be able to challenge him in a way that Sean has or does is something that is so foreign to him and he doesn't wanna show his vulnerable side.
Speaker 3:I think part of that, though, too, is because Sean allowed himself to be vulnerable. When Will goes after him, sean doesn't just try to take the clinical approach. It's like and I'm sure without being a professional myself, there's this thing. You don't do that as a professional, but he did, and he showed I don't wanna say weakness, but vulnerability to Will, and I think that's part of what allowed Will to be like okay, this is a little different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was something to where Sean I don't think any of the doctors were ready for anything that they were gonna run into with Will. As Jake said, he used his intelligence as, like, his ultimate defense mechanism and he was one step ahead of these guys the whole way, and I think that that's what ended up working. The dynamic between Sean and Will was he hit upon the fact that they came from the same neighborhood, they had done these things and had these shared experiences to a point, and so he got Sean to the point where he lost control. He finally lost control.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we showed toughness too, which Will, I think, responded to like okay, this guy's not gonna back down either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, yeah, and that's seen right off the bat. He's. You can just see that Will is trying to find the weakness and with the other guys he found that weakness really quick and was able to strike that nerve and cut that nerve and they didn't have any kind of patience for him and so they just went to I don't need this in my life. And with Sean he's willing to take that and be able to dig a little bit deeper. I was like all right, you gave me this and I'm gonna give it back to you. And if you're gonna disrespect me, that's where the Southie upbringing comes into play. It's like disrespect. There's only so far that you can allow that to happen. Then you have to put your foot down. And he realized that he crossed the boundaries and if you see any of the interaction after that, he's really hesitant when he talks about his wife, about anything, and he says that like not being disrespectful but asking important questions still. And Sean accepts that but still pushes in polls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% going back into it, and I know we're spending some time on this, but this is really the crux of the film, at least is Will's state of mind and where he's at currently what he'd been through and where's he gonna go. Where's this guy? That is a genius. No one can go ahead and deny that fact. But he's just and it's talked about we'll touch upon it later in one of my favorite scenes between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, when Ben Affleck's talking to him about you're wasting your time here, yeah the demo scene.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's at least like a handful of scenes that all of us are just like man. That's like a perfect scene. I feel like this has happened in my life, or I would love to be a part of this in my life.
Speaker 1:It feels real right, you're not gonna go again. I keep harkening back to the Star Wars or Marvel movie. They're great to watch, they're great to see and, at sometimes, just great movie making. But the chances of us walking out here and flying off or getting into a lightsaber battle are slim. We're seeing stuff in a film like this that we can all relate to that maybe it's discussions we've had in one way or another.
Speaker 3:I think, too, what ties us together as movie fans and as friends and when we talk about the movies or books that we do, is that Books Well, I got a pile on Edree Andy and when he has Sean Kennedy on, and they have good talks. But what I think bonds us with these movies, and especially this movie in particular, is the movie quotes. And how many times have you heard, have we said, hey, you want a double burger, or how?
Speaker 3:you like dim apples. So, being a pop culture podcast, that's probably a quote that somebody has heard. How do you like dim apples? That you've said to somebody for many number of reasons. So I do enjoy that about this movie of some of the various scenes and some of the quotes that we like to pull out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And movie quotes are to the rent of my wife just a huge part of my life. I don't go a day without quoting some movie, either at work or here at the house. I swear there's not a day that goes by that I don't find a perfect situation for something I've heard in a movie, and you know.
Speaker 2:What a miserable experience or existence that we would have if we couldn't quote a movie one day.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, it wouldn't be worth living. We'd have nothing to say. Exactly exactly. I mean, you can't you just and again with this film? The movie quotes that we pull out from Caddyshack. The movie quotes we pull out from Star Wars. Are we like that? They're great and most people our age with Caddyshack and whatnot, are knowing what we're talking about. Maybe not so much, some of the younger ones maybe so. But the thing with quotes from this film is it's not just a standalone quote. You know, when I hear some of these things and it's not quotes that I'm gonna go ahead and just throw off handedly, except I can think of a couple. One would be you're the shepherd.
Speaker 1:You know so good. But you know, there's the other things that are a string, you know, almost a paragraph of a quote, you know, and instead of just a one liner, and you know, then next time you're gonna be coming in here talking about Gordon Wood, you're gonna be on that. Yeah, that whole diet tribe about. You know you spend how much money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, it's funny too, you kind of making that quote when he's talking about the book. I didn't pick up on this before when I watched the movie, but I did this past time of you know you're talking about Will's Genius. I was watching him read through a book and just like he's flipping the pages super fast. So when he's in that Harvard bar talking about you know, quoting this guy and page whatever, I'm like didn't really appreciate it. But after rewatching I was seeing how fast he's reading book. That was a whole character of just how much he soaked that stuff in and how photographic his memory was for that and I'd never picked that up before. I just said, ah, he's smart. But then, yeah, rewatching I was like holy smokes, like the whole character, like just boom, boom on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing, is the thing is, you know, with that, again you know there's proven that there are people out there that can do that. I mean, this isn't just you know, they made this character a superhero. I mean there's people that can go ahead and do this. So again, you know it's grounded in a reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's another thing with great scenes where we find ourselves quoting in certain situations. It's when Skyler is trying to understand that, like trying to grasp that, and so like I want to learn about this, and he explains. You know, I might not be able to hit the ball out of Fenway and I might not be able to play the piano, but when it comes to things like this, I could just play, and it's something that we've all been in, situations where we don't know why these things come to us. But when it came to that, the best way to explain it is I can just play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. And that was the scene when he was talking to Skyler about. You know, and it shows the. You know you want to root for this guy and whatnot. But you know the guy is just is so damaged by the point that we meet with him that you know you're rooting for this guy, and then he does something you know, like when he tells Skyler like you know all this stuff you're studying, basically it's so simple for me you know, and it's like man. What an asshole.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, but it stays true to the character. I mean, what he's got wrong with him isn't something that you just fix right away. And so you know again, a reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they say that it's really difficult and I find having this problem with you guys. If there's 50 point difference in IQ, it's really challenging to talk to people. So it's a little hard for me to talk down to you guys, but I'm figuring it out.
Speaker 3:Damn it. He beat me to the much I knew it was going with it, and I just had to sit here and steal it. I knew it was coming, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, with one of the quotes that Sean brings in, you know, regarding that to when he's talking to Stellan Skarsgard, his character professor, I don't have in front of me X Lambo, yeah, lambo. When he's talking to him he's giving you know kind of an assessment of Will and he tells him that, you know he pushes. His quote is he pushes people away before they get a chance to leave him. Yep, and that's exactly it. It's a self-destructive defense. You know he's been left. He's been, you know, at some point had love as a child and that was taken away or left. And so, you know, he just doesn't know how to go ahead and process anything. It really seems like the only people who've never left him are his three friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and those guys are completely loyal. They he's constantly testing people with their loyalty. I mean, he goes out there and picks that fight. With what was it, Carmine?
Speaker 3:Carmine is Garpaglia. That was such a great scene to do that in real time, but doing it in slow mo, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. That's such a great scene, but that is just again testing loyalty for these guys to be in my life is doing something like this. They know that it's wrong and know that it's illegal, but these are my boys and I'm going to test it.
Speaker 3:Not that we're fighting these days as it is, but we would always joke if we were to get into a scrap. Who was the one dude that probably wouldn't get into anything?
Speaker 2:Brandon Yep, we always said that dude, had your way back.
Speaker 3:Yep, he was not going to be involved.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:But no, and that's as guys identifying with the movie. Yeah, that was a beautiful thing to see that friendship and, as Sean said, any of those dudes would take a bat to somebody for will yeah?
Speaker 1:All he has to say is give the word. I knew one of those guys would do it, and so that's another thing. That's why it's so, and it was Professor Lambeau that he was telling how easy this stuff was for him. Not Skyward, yeah, that's a joke. Yep, yeah that he's just so completely on another level with this and you can't even explain why. So it's hard for him. But his friends don't see him that way. They know it, but he doesn't flash that around. It's just kind of something that's there to him. It's just like it's just he just have it Like. Some guys know movie quotes, some guys know sports stats, you know it's just something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he doesn't have to prove anything to them. He can just be himself and he feels that he's accepted for that and he doesn't need to ask them for help, for love, for support or any of those things like typical guy stuff that when it comes to emotion it's a little difficult for us to show that, and so he doesn't have to do that with them and he knows that they'll still judge him for who he is and not what he's doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know at its heart what would be the best way to describe this movie. I mean, don't put a label on it, but what you see, this movie is it? I mean, to me this thing is a. You know, we were talking about it before we started recording. Was, you know, a? The term coming of age, right? So I'd put that in it, I'd put a love story.
Speaker 1:Love story yeah, what else you got? What else would you classify? This is, and again, not drama, comedy, that type of stuff, but what else does this? What else? What makes this film and it can't be just us One best original screenplay at the Oscars. So it resonated with a bunch of people. It still talked about to this day. My kids have seen it. I've got a 25-year-old, I've got a 17-year-old, They've both seen it. You know, again, with it being as old as it is and it still blows my mind that it's 25 years old what else would you classify? You know what other? What does it have?
Speaker 2:Well, it could also be like a buddy movie with Chuckie, but it shows friendship and how friendship can be earned and it can be expressed without somebody saying it directly and having to prove it by being with somebody. You can show your friendship by, like Chuckie did, and he's like if you're going to be around, I'd kill you, because we know who you are and what you are capable of doing. And we don't have that and you being around here is almost like rubbing it in our face. So it also shows, with the friendship, that he's thinking that he needs to hang around, to be around these guys and be buddies with them for the rest of his life. But for other people that's like not cashing this $100 million check and just hanging out with all these people that wish they could have cashed that check and they'd be out of the neighborhood in a second because they want to provide for a family or something. So that's what I would think it would be about.
Speaker 1:I would 100% agree.
Speaker 3:I like that it doesn't fit into a box, that it's its own thing and we're able to talk about it. Today I was telling somebody at work that we're going to be, you know, doing a podcast on it, and they hadn't seen it and I said, oh, you got to check it out. I said, but you're ready, it'll get you. It's just one of those.
Speaker 1:What was the age range of the person you were talking to?
Speaker 3:30s, ok yeah. Yeah, so again with this little head of their time, right, yeah, and it'd be interesting to see what they thought. Yeah, because it does it. It usually that we as friends can watch movies several times and pick something out, or just for the enjoyment and some folks will just watch something once and be content with it, but I like that. Like I said, I revisited, picked up something I didn't before, but it still got me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's numerous times in there that that it'll get you. I mean, you know, if I've got one, one area in it that that I was kind of like, eh, it would be. Does anybody, does anybody have a feeling? And it was such a small part, it wasn't anything that ruined anything for me, but it was just so tonally different that I was kind of like it kind of a snap out of the film. You know to where I was like. That just really doesn't work.
Speaker 2:What part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was it when Chucky went to the interview for him?
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:I love that scene yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it may be funny, yeah, but you know I mean with with the suit that doesn't fit in the hair and the. You know, I mean it's a funny scene. It just didn't seem. It felt really farfetched for comedic value.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's why I appreciated it about it was because Will Will got a laugh about it when he told I think he's telling Sean, like I didn't go to that you know, and so you get Will's reaction to what it is, even though he's not in the room with them, but you still get his reaction from this scene, from not being there, yeah, and so you're not going to appreciate that. But I see what you're saying. But given the movie, even us talking about it, you need a little levity.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't mind. I don't mind the humor part of it. I think the suit that didn't fit and looked at literally ridiculous. But look where they're from.
Speaker 3:They're from Southie. They're dirt poor.
Speaker 1:You know he's not going to go spend $200 on a suit Edges for me, felt really, really out, brought me out of the movie Funny.
Speaker 2:I like that. It's that character trying to again that 50 point difference where he's trying to use all the smart words, quote, unquote, that he knows, even if they fit or not, like aforementioned, when nobody talked about a lawyer.
Speaker 2:Here to four. Yeah, keep your ear to the grind. So I mean he's he's just trying to say smart things in front of them and he's doing the same thing with the costume or the clothes. This is what he thinks that smart people wear and he's probably hasn't had a new suit since the last person died or when he was a kid and graduate. He's grown probably from that. So I think that has something to do with you just have one suit and for it to not fit him well is true to a character like that, where that dude's true wearing track suits all day. I think that's that is true to his character. And for him to go to do something like that, knowing he looks ridiculous, shows more loyalty of what kind of a friend he is that that he would do that, even though we see that as looking ridiculous, and knowing that that's ridiculous. But he's just. Yeah, I'll do it for Willie.
Speaker 3:I think he was out of his element, but I'm going to do it for well, Cause it makes some money make some money along the way. Right now right now.
Speaker 2:Retain her, yeah, like I said funny.
Speaker 1:But uh, you know from, for me it just was like that's a bit much.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I think that there was people that were in in your boat where, where that scene didn't exactly fit. That funny thing about this with the script there is a lot of this script getting into the nuts and bolts of it. It's, they had it, they've been working on it for over five years and they sold it to um Rob Reiner and Castle Rock for that to be developed into something. They wanted to put Brad Pitt and Leo in in this movie and those lead roles when they had it. But there was a big NSA part of it. It was. It was almost like an action movie and I think Michael Mann was supposed to at one point direct this, and so they had all these things and there's a little conspiracy theory behind this. If you guys are ready for a little conspiracy theory from me about this, uh, I know one of us is oh, I love your, I got a bunch.
Speaker 3:We have another hour we can tack on to this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do, we'll hit that right up.
Speaker 2:So, so a lot of the stuff that was cut out of the. They just stripped it down to this, this relationship, these relationships, but they were. That story that um will tell us about the NSA is like why wouldn't you work for us? And then he describes that thing Well, he was like supposed to work for the NSA. A lot in this original script and the stuff that they threw out that Michael Mann was going to direct Um.
Speaker 2:They say that it turned into the accountant with the Ben Affleck that later did that movie, so that that the the stuff that he did was will hunting if he went to the NSA.
Speaker 1:No kidding how about that.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. So you see all the math and what he would have done. And he went to the training with the NSA, become this like super spy and being able to do these things and that was who he would have been if he grew up was the accountant.
Speaker 3:Now you being the film student going to film school Jake, I loved.
Speaker 2:I graduated Yep.
Speaker 1:I think that's the second time we've covered that on this podcast. Well, I don't see the diploma on the wall, so I just want to remind the listeners.
Speaker 3:So, um, I love the scene where he's describing why he shouldn't, the fact that he had just a uh, very quick-witted answer for that, and he's telling the guy there and then it cuts to him finishing this story with Sean and ties that back in the office. I just love how they did that story and broke that, broke that down like that. That's a great scene, cause it's talking about getting shot in the ass and all this other stuff.
Speaker 2:Just so quick.
Speaker 2:Well, and it shows us creativity, but also his intelligence to be able to retell that story, for beat him right to Sean and he was hoping that their buddies and their friends that he would get a laugh out of it like he is.
Speaker 2:But Sean, being the father figure, just like gives a little bit of a hmm, that's funny kind of thing. And then what's the talk to him about his future? Yeah, what, showing distinct lines between therapist and friend, and that's something that will was having a problem with, and Sean too, because he wants to be vulnerable and have him, trust him. So he tells him stories about his wife farting in the sleep. That was the initial thing that broke them into like a trusting relationship, because he's expecting will to be vulnerable, but he hasn't been vulnerable with himself. So he opened himself up to be able to have that kind of relationship with him. But there is still a distinction between Sean trying to be like a figure that he has never had in his life, that's, trying to do what's best for him, and him as a person, not him as a brain.
Speaker 1:Right and you go ahead and put the fact that Professor Lambeau put them together to go ahead and you know, basically to kind of guide will in the direction that Lambeau wanted him to go, and you know, so there's there's kind of that relationship that that Sean and Jerry, as he call him, as he calls him, were classmates and so you know, one of them went on to be a field as metal winner and one of them teaches, I mean, at the community college you know, but Booker Hill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he's not, you know and that's. It seems like that's where he's where he wants to be. He doesn't they even talk about it. He and Lambo get into it about, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's one of the reasons why Lambo didn't go to him first is because he wanted these other guys to push them in the way that he wanted them to.
Speaker 2:Like the, he could really be something for developing new theorems and proofs and being able to go into the field like Einstein, where I mean he's going in and he's talking about rockets and bombs and Adam splitting and and trying to be something that's important for humanity and down the line with human beings and discovering the different mathematical equations that could improve our way of life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just something. We're talking about some of that, something that took me out of the movie Math. He's got, he's doing the thing on the chalkboard and there's just dots on there, and then he's making other squiggly lines. I'm like I don't know what's going on here. I don't like it, took me way out of it. Yep. Well, there you go. I mean. I could have got a field's metal. But then yeah, the math part.
Speaker 1:But math, yeah, I'm like I'm going to go away it sure does.
Speaker 2:You got to prove things yeah.
Speaker 3:But no, just talking about people that do math, like you see that, and just watching the movie, you're like there's people that can, like that, mean something to them. You know, not you, and Can you imagine?
Speaker 1:can you imagine where we would be in the world if the three of us were in charge of advancing human technology?
Speaker 3:Yeah. We wouldn't be talking into these computers and sound boards, we'd talk about conspiracy theories. That's why I fully believe in aliens, because if we relied on me or us to I mean hundreds of thousands of years before you know, we made a wheel even.
Speaker 1:I had a campfire tonight.
Speaker 3:That's pretty impressive. Thank you, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I remember having this discussion with or when we were in St Louis and we learned how they build the arch in the in St Louis and they both started at different points and they met in the middle. That's how they built it all the way up there and I was like there's no way, if we were, we would meet at the middle.
Speaker 3:No, at least six, eight, 12 inches apart. We like we screwed this up somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, don't look right. If you threw me in there, the arch would be something you would walk over.
Speaker 3:That'd be about the bridge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean, it would just be something that you would literally step over, because if that's about it would be something that I made.
Speaker 2:It just kind of stood up you know, a trip hazard.
Speaker 1:I think they'd call it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's you know again.
Speaker 1:They did a really good job, though, of illustrating you know, with, with that, just without hitting you in the face and telling you you're stupid. They went ahead and just did an excellent job of showing you know again, his, his intelligence is such a huge part of the story that they they were able to really quickly illustrate how smart this guy was. But as smart as he is, you know it's, it's there's so much that he's missing. He's got so much that that other people don't have, but there's so much that he knows nothing about. And that's what you know. John, again, the best scenes for me are with, with, with him and Will.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that makes the movie. I mean, we pull some other scenes that we like, but that's that's the whole crux of the movie. Is those two? Yeah?
Speaker 2:And that's what got the movie made was that that bench scene they called it well, they called Sean requires role of the Harvey Keitel role, because Harvey Keitel, once he was attached to reservoir dogs, is what made reservoir dogs be able to be green lit. And so they wrote that scene specifically that an actor coming in and wanting a juicy role would see this and it could. They were thinking Morgan Freeman when they were writing it. They were thinking of De Niro and they even thought, like Meryl Streep was a possibility to be in that role, just because it's it's a counselor that would be able to help that person. And then they would just if it was Meryl Streep, they could go into a mother aspect instead of a father aspect very easily.
Speaker 3:I can't help it when I hear Meryl Streep think of the stripper from stuck on you. Oh yeah, how do you think? Do either of you have insight on how they got Robin Williams in that, like what, any backstory and what attracted him?
Speaker 2:or there was connection I don't know it offhand, but I did hear I think it was through agents like somebody works for another person and got it into their hands and Matt Damon worked with somebody that Robin Williams knew and asked them how he was to work with and then he put his hat into the ring after finding out that it was pretty good and I think it might have been Denzel because of courage under fire just beforehand, I think, but I'm not sure. That's not a hundred percent. That's all gossip.
Speaker 3:It's all hearsay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely hearsay. You know, it is interesting how they got into the casting of, like Cole Hauser. They all met on school ties and one of the reasons that they developed this script was to be able to give them roles, and they were thinking of this script as their rocky script, because so as just alone was attached to the script and he wouldn't let anybody else take that role over. So they were thinking the same thing with this was how they're going to break into the industry, because they kept losing to people like Chris O'Donnell or Brendan Frazier for those roles that they want to do, and so they were trying to write themselves the good roles to be able to break themselves into the industry a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely the you know. Again, going back into, you know the movie about. I think Jake was that you talking about relationships.
Speaker 3:He don't know nothing about relationships.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, you know ships he does.
Speaker 3:He's a good buddy.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, you got, you got the relation. So you know relationship as a. You have a patient doctor relationship with with Sean and will. You've got friendships with Morgan and and Chucky and Bill Yep, you've got that relationship.
Speaker 1:You've got a romantic relationship with with Skylar, you know, so it does. It does a really good job, I think, of giving each of those aspects of his life appropriate attention. I mean, you know, sometimes in movies you know you get rushed through certain things to go ahead and get to either you know more plot development or something like that. You get things spoon fed to you to get to the next point that the story needs to go to. Yeah, this does a really good job of not going from point A to, you know, from A to Z in order.
Speaker 1:You know you get some of you start off with Will and his friends and it's not the last. You see, you don't see his relationship evolve away from his friends. You see him go from there to his relationship with Professor Lambeau, to his relationship with Sean, to his relationship with Skyler, but then things go back and forth. He still spends, you know, spending his time with his friends once to still going to his therapy sessions with Sean spending time with Skyler and you know making time for everything. So it's the way it's constructed. Does a for me, did a really great job of not doing that thing to where? You know a lot of stories. You know they go the cliche route, you know the character grows and you know he does this and it's not not until the end that you get kind of that next step. Yeah, you know, for the character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, this came out at a time when independent film was really blowing up, and this, this is an independent film as well, and so a lot of those scripts and those plot plot lines had had a lot more leniency in the films that they were coming out with, because you had films like clerks where it, and slackers, where there wasn't necessarily a traditional first act, second act, third act, rising action, all those things, conclusions, and it's and it's a formula that you can just be rest assured.
Speaker 2:If it came out of Hollywood it's going to have this formula God gets the girl at the end. But with this and a lot of independent film, they were shaking things up so much that you just you were just going for a ride, you were sitting in that car with them and just hanging out with these and these guys and seeing what they were going to do, rather than hoping that at the very end he gets the job, gets the girl, gets the white picket fence and things like that. So I think that's what allowed this script to be done and the timing of it worked out well because of the independent film and the rising of Sundance films and and Boogie Nights came out the same year as this I think it was, and so you were a little more lenient with the way that the script was developed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't. You know, going back on what you were saying, how dare or question you as a film student, because you just broke down a lot of stuff and I'd like to go and give you props for that.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. Question him as a film student. I gave you a film student yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do I call you a cast tech student.
Speaker 3:I'm not a student, I'm a master. But no, I I like talking to you about movies because you have, I'm just a fan, but you got to take 100% inside and that's why I brought up about my how I liked how they did that scene.
Speaker 3:Because you're always talking about like lighting and all kinds of artsy stuff that I'm like what stuff you pick up on that adds to the story. Those things add to the story. Yeah, you don't always realize it as a as a fan, until you see something that removes you from it. Then you can sometimes pick it out.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, I think you could, if I think Christian Bale did a great idea of bringing the lighting into into focus a few years back when somebody stepped into the scene Good for you.
Speaker 3:Good for you and that kind of ruined that dude. But he he months back to. He's done some good stuff since then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, you're not talking about the lighting dude, you get fired.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, yeah, I mean there's, there's transcendent actors, and and Christian Bale is, is right up there, and if anybody wants it, anybody wants to go ahead and say that that he's not a great actor, then they can go ahead and they can fight me right now. Yeah, because if you've never seen specifically American Psycho.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Just so over the top work. Have you seen that? I just sent something, was it, I think, to you? Jake sent something about saw something on YouTube and Bale was going over some of his roles yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah On GQ yeah, and he was they were going to pass him up, like he had a director step up and stood her ground on him and they both lost it. They gave it to somebody else and then it circled background and they they both ended up getting it.
Speaker 2:But one of one of female director did that American Psycho female director.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good. One of my favorite film scenes you know, I'm not saying top five, but a favorite is that business card scene.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, just how much detail.
Speaker 3:They went to the end of the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean is a complete color.
Speaker 2:That is that bone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the way he's, the way he's looking at it and starting to sweat, and the just these tiny facial expressions and how much thought he's overthinking this is. It's a perfect illustration of a psychopath.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know everything that he does in there is funny because I was watching some some videos about the psychiatrist that were breaking down some some scenes like that and, of course, like the Goodwill hunting scenes, and they were talking about how Goodwill hunting's, the therapist and patient scenes were among the best that have been depicted in film, and so it stands up, and that was at a time when mental health wasn't exactly like the priority when it comes to to people, and even the character Jerry Lambeau was don't give me that like defense mechanism crap, you know and he's trying to talk to him in a professional way and Sean is knowing what would be best for him and and Lambeau is one of those people that old school mentality oh, don't give me that crap about that, because it's just mumbo, mumbo shit.
Speaker 1:Well, the thing about you know mental health, you know, especially 25 years ago, was it wasn't something that that you talked about. I'm sure you know a lot of people you know, especially in the Midwest, where we're, where I'm from well, we're all from.
Speaker 2:I mean we're all yeah yeah is.
Speaker 1:You know. It just wasn't something that that is talked about, right. I mean it's more accepted these days. That it's not a weakness, it's not something that that you hide from. You know it's. You break your leg, you go to the hospital, you know it's something that that you need help to fix.
Speaker 1:And yeah, the way that and the thing about it is, it's got to be so infinitely much harder to go ahead and and and do because it's not a one size fits all. It's not a broken leg to where you can go in and get an x-ray, and they know exactly what to do with this broken leg that they've probably seen hundreds of times before. The doctors or team. They know how to fix that. You know, and that's why you know this film. Here Sean's character had to figure it out. It's not a one size fits all. Every time somebody comes in and you know they're, they're depressed, they've got anxiety or whatever it is, you know, and so that's why it's such a great scene with the one where he comes in and they just sit and don't say anything for an hour.
Speaker 3:He had to be more stubborn than he was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had to go ahead and find it, you know, and when they talked to you mentioned it, or about the painting, you know. And then the next time he comes in after he puts him up against a wall, you know, loses it on him, you know. He comes back the next time and talks to him about how he ripped his life apart. So there you have it, the end of this episode, part one of our discussion on good will hunting. I hope you enjoyed it.
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